{"id":14803,"date":"2024-05-01T09:55:24","date_gmt":"2024-05-01T13:55:24","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/freethepeople.org\/?p=14118"},"modified":"2024-11-22T15:17:01","modified_gmt":"2024-11-22T20:17:01","slug":"the-libertarian-split-on-open-borders","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/freethepeople.org\/the-libertarian-split-on-open-borders\/","title":{"rendered":"The Libertarian Split on Open Borders"},"content":{"rendered":"

Recently, I wrote a 2-part series titled \u201cRazor Wire on the Rio Grande\u201d [Part 1<\/a>, Part 2<\/a>] in which I went over the ongoing conflict<\/a> between Texas and the Biden administration over Texas\u2019 seizure of a roughly 2.5-mile area of the border town of Eagle Pass, Texas, which for a time prevented federal immigration authorities from accessing the area.<\/p>\n

In that series, among other things, I analyzed the current situation, pointed out the contrast between Biden\u2019s position on immigration as a presidential candidate in 2020 and where he appears to stand now, and discussed the effect this issue is having on American politics during a presidential election year.<\/p>\n

What I didn\u2019t do was provide an in-depth look into my own thoughts on immigration and the border crisis. I did include some<\/em> commentary, but it was primarily focused on the political environment in which this discussion is taking place. If I\u2019m being honest, I\u2019m not sure I even have a firm position on immigration policy, as this issue is complex and I\u2019m sympathetic to arguments from both sides of the debate, broadly speaking. However, I will say that I disagree with the way both dominant political factions in the U.S. have come to perceive and talk about this issue, particularly since it became deeply submerged in the culture war.<\/p>\n

Generally, the American right tends to come off as indifferent to the plight of immigrants—most of whom are probably decent human beings simply seeking freedom, safety or opportunity, and many are often fleeing regions that have been destabilized<\/a> by U.S. foreign policy. I\u2019ll also add (with the risk of sounding like part of the Woke mob) that some of the American right\u2019s rhetoric on immigration can occasionally<\/em> come across as xenophobic or even somewhat racist.<\/p>\n

The American left, on the other hand, generally comes off as indifferent to the real problems that mass, uncontrolled immigration brings to border cities and states, but they also seem to immediately (and hypocritically) acknowledge<\/a> those problems once they reach blue<\/em> cities and states. And while most immigrants are likely decent people, the American left tends to naively act like mass immigration carries no risk—like the very real possibility<\/a> that some violent or dangerous individuals might gain entrance into the country and harm U.S. citizens, for example.<\/p>\n

The conversation around immigration doesn\u2019t necessarily fall along a simple left\/right divide, however.<\/p>\n

Longtime readers of Thoughts Into Words<\/a><\/em> likely know that I identify as a libertarian, but that doesn\u2019t automatically give away my position on the border crisis or on immigration more broadly. Much like the issue of abortion<\/a>, libertarians are not all aligned on immigration and border policy; and ever since this conflict between Texas and the federal government began in January, that split has been continuously manifesting itself throughout libertarian corners of social media.<\/p>\n

Twitter Feuds<\/strong><\/p>\n

The debate among libertarians over immigration—or more accurately, over \u201copen borders\u201d—has long existed, but the current border crisis and the ongoing spat between Texas and the Biden administration has intensified it.<\/p>\n

The current round of this debate really took off after libertarian comedian and podcaster Dave Smith went on the Liberty Lockdown<\/em> podcast in February to discuss conservative journalist Tucker Carlson\u2019s interview<\/a> with Russian President Vladimir Putin, which had just happened at the time. Toward the end of that episode<\/a>, the conversation turned to immigration.<\/p>\n

\u201c[F]rom the most recent numbers I saw, there was approximately eight million that came across the border last year alone,\u201d said Clint Russell, host of Liberty Lockdown<\/em>. \u201cThey [the U.S. government] will not spend a dollar to try and address that issue, despite the fact that it is the number one issue amongst GOP voters and a quickly, you know, elevating issue among Democrat voters… they will still now do a stand alone bill to ship… $96 billion dollars to Ukraine.\u201d<\/p>\n

(Russell was referring to a recent foreign aid package<\/a> that had just passed the U.S. Senate. In addition to the billions of dollars for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan, the original bill contained spending to address the border crisis as well, but it was eventually stripped from the legislation. That bill has since passed<\/a> the U.S. House of Representatives.)<\/p>\n

In response, Dave Smith pointed out that the U.S. has troops \u201call throughout Europe, all throughout Asia, all throughout the Middle East,\u201d and then said the \u201cobvious answer\u201d is \u201cthat all of our troops should come home, and be stationed around our borders.\u201d<\/p>\n

After acknowledging that there are many libertarians who disagree with his opposition to open borders—and maintaining that no one has been able to actually take on his arguments—Smith then said \u201cif you believe in open borders right now under current… circumstances, you\u2019re an insane person, and you\u2019re as bad as a communist.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cThe answer is\u201d Smith continued, \u201ctake our fucking entire military, and put them on our border, and secure our border.\u201d<\/p>\n

It was this part of the episode that began to circulate<\/a> on social media and cause a flurry of heated debate among libertarians. Many different people within the liberty movement—some with fairly large followings—felt the need to respond to Smith\u2019s statements.<\/p>\n

One such person was Jack V. Lloyd, a libertarian content creator, music producer, and author, who got into a somewhat heated argument with Smith on X\/Twitter that spanned several days.<\/p>\n

The back-and-forth between Dave Smith and Jack Lloyd largely consisted of Lloyd offering to debate Smith, live and moderated, on the issue of immigration and open borders and Smith refusing, but throughout the days-long spat there were a few interesting moments.<\/p>\n

One exchange that took place involved Lloyd\u2019s wife, Pho, also known as The Pholosopher, who is herself a fairly prominent voice in the liberty movement.<\/p>\n

In that instance, Lloyd was trying to convince Smith to debate him on immigration, to which Smith told<\/a> Lloyd \u201ctell me what you want to debate and make a compelling point. If you want to debate borders, do you understand my position? What am I getting wrong? If you make a compelling point, maybe I\u2019ll do it.\u201d<\/p>\n

Lloyd\u2019s response<\/a> goes as follows:<\/p>\n

\u201cOkay: Collectivist rhetoric using ‘will of the people’ causes major confusion among your followers and leads them to rationalize more state control out of a fear-based mindset. There are better ways to talk about common problems due to state incentive distortions, and those ways involve privatization as the focus. No need for half-wayisms or rationalizations for state force, such as a call for putting all U.S. troops on the border. Straightforward?\u201d<\/p>\n

\n

Okay:<\/p>\n

– Collectivist rhetoric using "will of the people" causes major confusion among your followers and leads them to rationalize more state control out of a fear-based mindset.<\/p>\n

There are better ways to talk about common problems due to state incentive distortions, and those\u2026<\/p>\n

— Jack V Lloyd (@jackvlloyd) February 19, 2024<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n